A bit of lever action

[John F]

That little flexing wobble is it?

That isn't too bad.

You should get it B l  deal finder.

[BoldJava]

Nah, I am saving up. 

B|Java

[John F]

For what?

I'm also saving up but dont have a specific machine in mind.

[Tex]

Nah, I am saving up. 

B|Java

I thought you bought everything and sold what you didn't want to keep?

[John F]

Warrior.. What do you think about potential shot quality of this machine vs other levers?

[Warrior372]

A La Pavoni? It is going to be more comparable to an Olympia Cremina than anything. The only real difference is that many would argue the Olympia has superior parts with all (as far as I know) being made in-house at Olympia in Switzerland. The pressure-stat on a Cremina is an incredibly simple, unique, well thought out and high quality part that I have never seen on any other machine. All levers are much more reliable pieces of equipment compared to semi-autos due to the minimalistic approach and lack of wiring / electric parts.

A La Pavoni or Cremina are only going to be as consistent as the person who is pulling the shots. The nice part is that if you are inconsistent with your grind / tamp you can pull harder or softer on the lever to adjust the shot flow. Some people like this aspect. I am not a huge fan of it. With a spring-loaded lever I can always push up on the lever if the shot flow is too slow. The spring also adds some form of consistency to the whole process so I have a constant to which I can dial in my grind and tamp. It is all personal preference.

The reason why I eventually got drawn to classic single group commercial levers is that they have the same if not better craftsmanship of an Olympia Cremina, they have larger boilers allowing me to pull shots for as many people as I would like, they steam like banshies and they are pretty hard to come-by depending one the year, make and model so not everyone has one. I am not a fan of plastic within the manufacturing process of anything. It is cheap, fragile and looks horrible in most cases. Almost no pre - 90s commercial lever uses plastic on anything but the portafilter handles, lever knob and steam / water knobs.

One thing that you get with a home lever vs a commercial one is the small portafilter. This is why the La San Marco single group commercial levers have become such a highly prized oddity. They sport the capacity of a commercial machine yet still have a smaller portafilter / basket at 53mm than all other commercial levers which are 58mm. So you get the same capacity and still can get in on some of the more nuanced flavors one can achieve with a smaller diameter / deeper portafilter basket.

Sorry, I got on a role there. That was way more then you asked for .

[John F]

I'm really starting to think about going non spring.

I 'm not giving up my pump machine so I have an internal debate going on about using the sintering for consistency vs. being totally responsible by hand.

I also like knowing I can go order every part from Orphan.

The thing I'm worried about is the absolute potential of shot quality..I want to be positive any failings are my fault and not a machine limitation. Bottom line..can the LP pull on par with the PV?

[BoldJava]

I didn't realize that the Cremina was still manufactured in Switzerland.  Closest retailer is in the UK:

http://londiniumespresso.com/products/olympia-cremina-espresso-machine, $3700

http://www.olympia-express.ch//site/produkte/cremina/produktbeschreibung

[BoldJava]

For what?

I'm also saving up but dont have a specific machine in mind.

Dit-to.  No need to grab a "bargain." Can't have that much plastic (Pavoni) on display.  Whatever I buy will be dressed up with olive wood handles. Just reading a ton for now. The anticipation is delicious (just for Jeff).

When the leva' operator is ready, the leva' will appear.

B|Java

[Warrior372]

Here is the Olympia Express manufacturers website: http://www.olympia-express.ch/home . Definitely still handmade in Switzerland.

P.S. - John in regard to gaskets, o-rings and seals I guarantee Orphan gets them all at Mcmaster-Carr, Grainger or the like. With that said, I have never had anything but great service form Orphan and Doug / Barb are very nice, helpful and knowledgable people.

[Tex]

A La Pavoni? It is going to be more comparable to an Olympia Cremina than anything. The only real difference is that many would argue the Olympia has superior parts with all (as far as I know) being made in-house at Olympia in Switzerland. The pressure-stat on a Cremina is an incredibly simple, unique, well thought out and high quality part that I have never seen on any other machine. All levers are much more reliable pieces of equipment compared to semi-autos due to the minimalistic approach and lack of wiring / electric parts.

A La Pavoni or Cremina are only going to be as consistent as the person who is pulling the shots. The nice part is that if you are inconsistent with your grind / tamp you can pull harder or softer on the lever to adjust the shot flow. Some people like this aspect. I am not a huge fan of it. With a spring-loaded lever I can always push up on the lever if the shot flow is too slow. The spring also adds some form of consistency to the whole process so I have a constant to which I can dial in my grind and tamp. It is all personal preference.

The reason why I eventually got drawn to classic single group commercial levers is that they have the same if not better craftsmanship of an Olympia Cremina, they have larger boilers allowing me to pull shots for as many people as I would like, they steam like banshies and they are pretty hard to come-by depending one the year, make and model so not everyone has one. I am not a fan of plastic within the manufacturing process of anything. It is cheap, fragile and looks horrible in most cases. Almost no pre - 90s commercial lever uses plastic on anything but the portafilter handles, lever knob and steam / water knobs.

One thing that you get with a home lever vs a commercial one is the small portafilter. This is why the La San Marco single group commercial levers have become such a highly prized oddity. They sport the capacity of a commercial machine yet still have a smaller portafilter / basket at 53mm than all other commercial levers which are 58mm. So you get the same capacity and still can get in on some of the more nuanced flavors one can achieve with a smaller diameter / deeper portafilter basket.

Sorry, I got on a role there. That was way more then you asked for .

LP's have one BIG problem Some of them have plastic/nylon pistons, and if you exert too much downward pressure they'll snap.

[Tex]

I'm really starting to think about going non spring.

I 'm not giving up my pump machine so I have an internal debate going on about using the sintering for consistency vs. being totally responsible by hand.

I also like knowing I can go order every part from Orphan.

The thing I'm worried about is the absolute potential of shot quality..I want to be positive any failings are my fault and not a machine limitation. Bottom line..can the LP pull on par with the PV?

LP's are very group temp unstable. Every 2 - 3 shots you have to stop and reestablish its temperature. No big deal, once you get used to using it, but you have to establish a routine.

Some of my best shots were pulled on a LP, simply because of the attention to detail they demand of the operator. I admit to becoming a bit lazy since I started using pump machines.

[John F]

I dont need to pull over 2 shots per session.

Besides my bamboo tinfoil masterpiece will be sitting just inches away..
 

[Tex]

I dont need to pull over 2 shots per session.

Besides my bamboo tinfoil masterpiece will be sitting just inches away..
 

Two LP shots = one Gaggia double. It's one of the few machines I have that makes better singles than doubles.

[BoldJava]

You'll need to get a lever smack-down going in Lake Cheddar.

...

Chicago should be the leva' throw-down city.  Beyond his actively used ones, Warrior has a half dozen just collecting dust.  <grins>  Line 'em up and give us a peek.

B|Java