Author Topic: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!  (Read 90079 times)

Tex

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #570 on: July 07, 2010, 11:22:39 AM »
Indeed, that double lever action is coming from Italy. You got it, they backed the VAT out and then I hit it with a discount code. I ordered from http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/ take a look at their 'International Orders' info section on the right hand side of their website. Delivered to my door they were the most competitive I found.

snipped


Thanks for the lead Shaun! I priced the Gaggia Classic there, and it came to $382 shipped, without a coupon!

I'll pass this info along to the Gaggia forum members, but first I'll have to verify that they can provide 120 VAC machines?

Offline peter

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #571 on: July 07, 2010, 12:01:47 PM »
If you put something in your cart, there's a drop-down for voltage choice.  At least there was on the Macap grinder I was looking at.

And don't forget shipping on the Gaggia.
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Tex

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #572 on: July 07, 2010, 12:11:34 PM »
If you put something in your cart, there's a drop-down for voltage choice.  At least there was on the Macap grinder I was looking at.

And don't forget shipping on the Gaggia.

Some products have voltage selection - some don't?

$382 for the Gaggia Classic included S&H and VAT rebate, but no coupon code. If it's available in 120 VAC format I'm sure I can generate some interest, like we did for the Classic Costco sold. I never got an answer to how many units Costco moved, all the importer would say was "a lot".

I'll bet Importika would be pissed if this panned out!  >:D

edited: Don't forget import duty when you calculate prices: US = ~4%
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 12:24:14 PM by Tex »

Offline mp

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #573 on: July 07, 2010, 12:23:20 PM »
If you put something in your cart, there's a drop-down for voltage choice.  At least there was on the Macap grinder I was looking at.

And don't forget shipping on the Gaggia.

Some products have voltage selection - some don't?

$382 for the Gaggia Classic included S&H and VAT rebate, but no coupon code. If it's available in 120 VAC format I'm sure I can generate some interest, like we did for the Classic Costco sold. I never got an answer to how many units Costco moved, all the importer would say was "a lot".

I'll bet Importika would be pissed if this panned out!  >:D

You're just looking after your own pocket.

 :)
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lp, 7-Ski

Tex

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #574 on: July 07, 2010, 12:48:31 PM »
There are options: http://shop.lagondola.it/

I've bought stuff from them and they ship fast.

Just out of curiosity, what import duties, and/or other fees, does Canada stick it's residents for on stuff bought/shipped from Italy?

Offline staylor

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #575 on: July 07, 2010, 01:04:16 PM »
I read over on HB a while back that the import duties are going to be around 9% for 'coffee device'. At the end of the day, whatever the additional costs are I'll absorb them, I wanted the PVL and I live in Canada so nothing I can do about it.

I think the 8988 discount code is generic but you can send them a quick email to see if there is a deeper discount on each machine you might be interested in.

Tex

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #576 on: July 07, 2010, 02:14:29 PM »
I read over on HB a while back that the import duties are going to be around 9% for 'coffee device'. At the end of the day, whatever the additional costs are I'll absorb them, I wanted the PVL and I live in Canada so nothing I can do about it.

I think the 8988 discount code is generic but you can send them a quick email to see if there is a deeper discount on each machine you might be interested in.

It didn't lower the price on the Classic - must be a one-use coupon? I sent a request for a code for it.

Offline mp

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #577 on: July 07, 2010, 03:57:03 PM »
I read over on HB a while back that the import duties are going to be around 9% for 'coffee device'. At the end of the day, whatever the additional costs are I'll absorb them, I wanted the PVL and I live in Canada so nothing I can do about it.

I think the 8988 discount code is generic but you can send them a quick email to see if there is a deeper discount on each machine you might be interested in.

It didn't lower the price on the Classic - must be a one-use coupon? I sent a request for a code for it.

Something tells me that Robert is going to find 5 or 6 European web sites that will ship to North America.

 ;D
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lp, 7-Ski

Offline John F

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #578 on: July 07, 2010, 07:39:50 PM »
..so I'll let the BII go fairly quickly.

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Offline mp

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #579 on: July 07, 2010, 07:53:50 PM »
I read over on HB a while back that the import duties are going to be around 9% for 'coffee device'. At the end of the day, whatever the additional costs are I'll absorb them, I wanted the PVL and I live in Canada so nothing I can do about it.

I think the 8988 discount code is generic but you can send them a quick email to see if there is a deeper discount on each machine you might be interested in.

Shaun ... consider yourself lucky that you only have to pay 9%.  In Ontario we have to pay 9% + HST 13% bringing it up to 22%. 

This could be considered legalized theft.

 :o
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Offline staylor

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #580 on: July 07, 2010, 08:00:06 PM »
..so I'll let the BII go fairly quickly.

"Now that's a bold statement"



I know, but it's the only way I can dive into the lever scene without constantly making 'unfair' comparisons between it and the BII. Funnily enough the neighbor buying the machine slid over for 30mins to chat on the back deck and pick up a pound of beans, he came in to the kitchen to eyeball my/his machine and he's pretty excited.

Man, he doesn't know how lucky he is... my machine, my espresso blends, my schooling him in his own kitchen. Any questions and I'm a 1min walk away. That's a pretty good way to start into his first day of espresso.

Offline staylor

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #581 on: July 07, 2010, 08:00:35 PM »
I read over on HB a while back that the import duties are going to be around 9% for 'coffee device'. At the end of the day, whatever the additional costs are I'll absorb them, I wanted the PVL and I live in Canada so nothing I can do about it.

I think the 8988 discount code is generic but you can send them a quick email to see if there is a deeper discount on each machine you might be interested in.

Shaun ... consider yourself lucky that you only have to pay 9%.  In Ontario we have to pay 9% + HST 13% bringing it up to 22%. 

This could be considered legalized theft.

 :o

I don't miss Ontario, at all.

Pyment

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #582 on: July 29, 2010, 10:44:33 AM »
well just to dredge up an old thread. It seems that you can separate the espresso journey into steps (excluding steam toys).

Step 1 - Single boiler dual use systems. I suppose one should look for units that can be upgraded to step 2 use. The most famous entries at this level would be the Gaggia Classic/Baby series and the Rancilio Silvia. They have good internals and record of durability. The 3 way solenoid is a nicity that most seem to value. There are other entries that can be found for a good price - Isomac Venus/Maverick/Giada Le'Lit PL041, . Skill is needed to get extraction at the proper temp. Usually requiring temp surfing.

Step 2 - This is the reason to be somewhat careful about the machine one purchases as a step 1 unit. If you are somewhat mechanical (or know someone who is), you can upgrade some of the SBDU's with a PID to get a more consistent brew temp. Some people buy SBDU's with the intent of adding a PID right away and some buy units already PID'd. I get the impression that you want a unit with pretty good innards to make it worthy of the additional investment of time and $$. Some people can be quite happy for a long time with this kind of unit.  We will have to see how long B/Java stays here after his latest round of upgrade-itis.

BTW, I am surprized that B/Java (Mr happy-with-stock-Silvia) was able to go through this little episode of upgrading with little fanfare and less humor at his expense. B/upgrader got off easy this time around.

Step 3 - Heat exchanger seems to be the next step (cost wise at least). The motivator for moving to this step is "need for steam". People seem to get frustrated when trying to make a bunch of milk drinks in a row and want the instant steam provided by an HX machine. Temp surfing as done with this machine seems a lot easier and consistent than on a SBDU unit.

Step 4 - Double boiler units with separate boilers for steam and brewing seem to give the ultimate control over steam and brew temps. For most this is at a much higher $$.

then there are lever machines that really don't fit the progression.

Do I have it right?

Tex

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #583 on: July 29, 2010, 10:58:21 AM »
well just to dredge up an old thread. It seems that you can separate the espresso journey into steps (excluding steam toys).

Step 1 - Single boiler dual use systems. I suppose one should look for units that can be upgraded to step 2 use. The most famous entries at this level would be the Gaggia Classic/Baby series and the Rancilio Silvia. They have good internals and record of durability. The 3 way solenoid is a nicity that most seem to value. There are other entries that can be found for a good price - Isomac Venus/Maverick/Giada Le'Lit PL041, . Skill is needed to get extraction at the proper temp. Usually requiring temp surfing.

Step 2 - This is the reason to be somewhat careful about the machine one purchases as a step 1 unit. If you are somewhat mechanical (or know someone who is), you can upgrade some of the SBDU's with a PID to get a more consistent brew temp. Some people buy SBDU's with the intent of adding a PID right away and some buy units already PID'd. I get the impression that you want a unit with pretty good innards to make it worthy of the additional investment of time and $$. Some people can be quite happy for a long time with this kind of unit.  We will have to see how long B/Java stays here after his latest round of upgrade-itis.

BTW, I am surprized that B/Java (Mr happy-with-stock-Silvia) was able to go through this little episode of upgrading with little fanfare and less humor at his expense. B/upgrader got off easy this time around.

Step 3 - Heat exchanger seems to be the next step (cost wise at least). The motivator for moving to this step is "need for steam". People seem to get frustrated when trying to make a bunch of milk drinks in a row and want the instant steam provided by an HX machine. Temp surfing as done with this machine seems a lot easier and consistent than on a SBDU unit.

Step 4 - Double boiler units with separate boilers for steam and brewing seem to give the ultimate control over steam and brew temps. For most this is at a much higher $$.

then there are lever machines that really don't fit the progression.

Do I have it right?

I agree with what you said, but would clarify it a bit more. Any espresso machine that is properly tuned has the capability of making good espresso. What is properly tuned? Control of the brewing temperature in 1°F increments, and control of brewing pressure at or near 9 bar pressure.

With the above in mind, I'd rate the necessity of an adjustable OPV & PID as being far more important than a 3-way valve, which contributes nothing to the quality of the shot. There are other factors: boiler size & material, heating element power, group design, ...,  that contribute to the quality of the machine; but these are far less important than the ability to tune the brew temp & brew pressure.


Pyment

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Re: Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!
« Reply #584 on: July 29, 2010, 11:11:00 AM »
I was trying to use the 3 way solenoid as a marker for when other internals of the machine reach the point where they are worth upgrading. You usually don't see the 3way solenoid in cheaper machines.

I wonder what would be the least expensive machine with an adjustible OPV?