Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!

[Warrior372]

Ponte Vecchio was formally SAMA not Gensaco. I believe Gensaco and Riviera have had ties though.

Gensaco sells machines made by Ponte Vecchio or vice versa, but I do know the Gensaco Lusso is identical to the Ponte Vecchio Lusso. It's been awhile but my notes indicate the Lusso has very severe group temp problems - reminded me of the La Pavoni; I had to use wet tea towels after three pulls to get the temp down into the working range.

Yes, that is very consistent among any home lever with such a small grouphead. Ponte Vecchios, Elektra MCaL, La Peppina, Arrarex, Olympia, La Pavoni, etc. they will all have this problem.  That is one of the reasons I recommended the two group head version versus the one to Staylor. Having two groupheads will allow him to alternate and get more shots out of the machine if he has company over.

You hit the nail on the head with your approach to remedying the situation. There are really only 2 ways to cool the groupheads down between shots. The wet rag on the group is one, and turning the machine off between shots is another.

Also, I stand corrected. Ponte Vecchio does make both the 'Export' and the 'Lusso' for Gensaco. The 'Export' is called the CAPUCIO and the 'Lusso' the LUX. Riviera does also make a machine for Gensaco, which is called the 'Capucio' with small letters . It appears that several of Gensaco's other machines are manufactured by Bezzera.

Anyway, MP is right. . . the CAPUCIO is cheaper than the Export.

[John F]

Ooops!

The post I'm quoting is gone. 

I'll rephrase to say I REALLY like the look of the export better than the two group.

The only reason I'll pick the two group is what Warrior just said about pulling multiple shots.

If I learn that it's not a problem to pull 2 shots back to back I would probably go back to choosing the Export over the two group.

What do you think Warrior, 2 back to back shots on the Export using 2 preloaded baskets.....doable without overheating?

[Warrior372]

John,

Prior to moving into the world of commercial lever machines I was really close to pulling the trigger on that 2-group Ponte Vecchio Lusso. At the time, OrphanEspresso was selling slightly modified Lussos, so I had the chance to speak with Doug and Barb about them. They said that one of the reasons Ponte Vecchio went that route was to allow the user to pull more shots without overheating, plus it just looks cool! Now, I never got to experience that, as I never bought one, but that same thought was the main reason I was looking at the 2 group and not the one group. The reason I started looking at new machines was that the MCaL would overheat after 3 shots, which was really inconvenient when company was over. With that said, understand that home lever machines are not meant to be left on all day. If you leave those machines on long enough, regardless of how many groups the machine has, the entire machine will heat up to an incredibly hot temp. So, just realize you turn them on when you want shots and turn them off when you do not. They do heat up relatively fast, so it is not really an inconvenience.  

The other plus to a Lusso versus an Export is the water capacity, 3L to 1L. Regardless of how many shots I could pull on the MCaL, utilizing tricks to cool it or not, the machines water capacity, 1L, really only lent itself to about 5-6 doubles with flushing in between shots. There may have been more water in the boiler, but with Elektras they recommend you always keep the boiler right around half. This ensures you are not exposing the top of the heating element.

As far as two back to back shots on the Export, I will say not immediately back to back anyway. Lever espresso machines do not have a group pressure release, so the user has to wait for the pressure to dissipate. Otherwise they get the feared / messy portafilter sneeze. Even if you cheat and wiggle the portafilter to help it along with it's pressure release you should still wait 25-30 seconds to let some of the pressure subside. After which you could wiggle the PF to remove the rest, then flush the group to remove the mess you made on the group screen due to your lack of patience, dry the screen off with a towel and then you could reload for another shot.

[mp]

Ponte Vecchio was formally SAMA not Gensaco. I believe Gensaco and Riviera have had ties though.

Gensaco sells machines made by Ponte Vecchio or vice versa, but I do know the Gensaco Lusso is identical to the Ponte Vecchio Lusso. It's been awhile but my notes indicate the Lusso has very severe group temp problems - reminded me of the La Pavoni; I had to use wet tea towels after three pulls to get the temp down into the working range.

Yes, that is very consistent among any home lever with such a small grouphead. Ponte Vecchios, Elektra MCaL, La Peppina, Arrarex, Olympia, La Pavoni, etc. they will all have this problem.  That is one of the reasons I recommended the two group head version versus the one to Staylor. Having two groupheads will allow him to alternate and get more shots out of the machine if he has company over.

You hit the nail on the head with your approach to remedying the situation. There are really only 2 ways to cool the groupheads down between shots. The wet rag on the group is one, and turning the machine off between shots is another.

Also, I stand corrected. Ponte Vecchio does make both the 'Export' and the 'Lusso' for Gensaco. The 'Export' is called the CAPUCIO and the 'Lusso' the LUX. Riviera does also make a machine for Gensaco, which is called the 'Capucio' with small letters . It appears that several of Gensaco's other machines are manufactured by Bezzera.

Anyway, MP is right. . . the CAPUCIO is cheaper than the Export.

I ran into a few posts from people looking at Gensaco wanting to buy the Capucio ... although it is listed at $499 they were told that they did not have any and were pointed to the larger lever machine at $1300.  It may be an old link.  I never did try to get hold of them to verify it one way or another.  If they do have them $499 is much better than $699 for them.

 

[Pyment]

I haven't see the Bezzera mentioned.

It looks pretty worthy.

http://www.1st-line.net/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=B2006AL&type=store

[Tex]

I know two people who swear by their Gaggia Mini espresso machine. Open boiler (great plus feature!!), and spring powered lever, make this not-too-difficult-to-find and still reasonably priced machine a great choice. Only drawback - no steam capability. You'd have to decide if frou-frou is really important or not?

[Warrior372]

There is a Zerowatt CA310 lever on craigslist right now. They are very similar to the MiniGaggias. I do not know much about them, only that they are quite rare.

Oops I meant Ebay, not CL!

[John F]

Only drawback - no steam capability.

Not a deal killer for me at all if I found one for a steal...

My thing on this machine is that I don't have any desire for it to be a project machine. That is a pretty old design I'm guessing and might be a pain to source an o ring, seal, or something. The only way I'm getting something like that is if it's a screaming deal I can't pass up, otherwise I'll probably be looking at new for this purchase.  

I am only interested in learning about lever shots not any machine rebuilding, modding, or any of that stuff. I've already got one of those.  

[John F]

There is a Zerowatt CA310 lever on craigslist right now.

How do you guys perform these searches?

I've tried a ton of searches in my area for things like "lever espresso machine" to no success whatsoever.....ever. Is there some way to search all craigslist(s) ?

[mp]

Try this John:

"lever espresso machine site:craigslist.org"

I cannot find the one that Warrior mentioned however.

 

[gratefulroast]

Try this John:

"lever espresso machine site:craigslist.org"

I cannot find the one that Warrior mentioned however.

 

Could also try craiglook.com .. it's what all the kool kids are using.

[mp]

Did someone want a Zerowatt?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Zerowatt-CA310-vintage-lever-espresso-machine-anni80-/320543979433?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Coffee_Machines_Makers&hash=item4aa1e8f7a9

Roughly $300 delivered from Italy.  The only thing is I'm not sure if its cord will work on our outlets.

 

[John F]

Could also try craiglook.com .. it's what all the kool kids are using.

I want to be cool too...... 

[Tex]

Could also try craiglook.com .. it's what all the kool kids are using.

I want to be cool too...... 

The cool kids don't do frou-frou; very uncool!

[John F]

The cool kids don't do frou-frou; very uncool!

I wanna be a rebel.