Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!

[mp]

:thefinger: :laughing4: :bootyshake:

.

The Three Stooges - Moe Slap Happy

We'll keep you posted if it comes to fisticuffs

 :laughing4:

[staylor]

22 pages in and I still think there might have been about 4 pages of good content, but at least this thread got me looking at lever machines, reading old homebarista.com lever threads again (which are quite good) and contemplating my next move - if any.

Shout out to Warrior372 who helped inch me further along the lever thought path, oh and also thanks by default to John, who keeps mumbling about lever but at this rate I might have one before he does and that's almost enough incentive for me to look a little harder. ;-)

[John F]

and also thanks by default to John, who keeps mumbling about lever but at this rate I might have one before he does and that's almost enough incentive for me to look a little harder. ;-)

I'm sure you will beat me..... and I hate you. 

But I'm on the way.   

[peter]

22 pages in and I still think there might have been about 4 pages of good content, but at least this thread got me looking at lever machines, reading old homebarista.com lever threads again (which are quite good) and contemplating my next move - if any.

Shout out to Warrior372 who helped inch me further along the lever thought path, oh and also thanks by default to John, who keeps mumbling about lever but at this rate I might have one before he does and that's almost enough incentive for me to look a little harder. ;-)

You could just get a low-end Gaggia and put a PID and a lever on it.  It would pull killer shots as good as any sexy chrome La San Marco; it's all about the barista's skill ya know.

[Tex]

22 pages in and I still think there might have been about 4 pages of good content, but at least this thread got me looking at lever machines, reading old homebarista.com lever threads again (which are quite good) and contemplating my next move - if any.

Shout out to Warrior372 who helped inch me further along the lever thought path, oh and also thanks by default to John, who keeps mumbling about lever but at this rate I might have one before he does and that's almost enough incentive for me to look a little harder. ;-)

You could just get a low-end Gaggia and put a PID and a lever on it.  It would pull killer shots as good as any sexy chrome La San Marco; it's all about the barista's skill ya know.

Ahem peter,

[staylor]

and also thanks by default to John, who keeps mumbling about lever but at this rate I might have one before he does and that's almost enough incentive for me to look a little harder. ;-)

I'm sure you will beat me..... and I hate you. 

But I'm on the way.   

I'm not sure I will beat you, but I'm thinking about heading down that path. ;-)

My conflict is over the Brewtus II. I'm not sure I can justify keeping two espresso machines on the counter as much as I would like to. I don't want to give up the BII for several reasons, primarily it's great microfoam abilities, it's ability to deal with 10 adults wanting drinks on a Saturday afternoon and of course it's dependability to put out good shots. If I knew there was a lever machine out there that could allow for the creation of the same milk, same espresso demand and repeatability my decision would be easier.

I understand from quite a bit of reading over at HB that a lever and a rotary produce two different kinds of espresso's, I'm ok with that. Maybe, just maybe, it's time I dipped my toe into that stream. I also understand reading over at HB that the lever guys seem to feel the espresso is superior in ability to demonstrate the subtleties and many layers within the coffee, maybe add more clarity to the shot, etc and I'm down with that. Which of course brings me back to the discussion you and I have had many times which is 'What is espresso?' and I have a few opinions on that one, but none of them preclude shifting to a lever.

Hanging onto the BII and a lever would allow me to compare, create baselines and then after a period of time of learning enough on the lever I could pull shots on the particular machine according to the need/feeling. But that's a bit of a luxury for me I think and that's what's causing me to question what to do.

If I flip the BII locally, the cash flow would make a lever purchase more palatable and I could execute on the machine of choice in a quicker fashion - whatever that machine might be.

No answers yet, mostly just questions rolling around in my head. ;-)

[John F]

No answers yet, mostly just questions rolling around in my head. ;-)

I've been thinking it over for some time now and I can't see either of us giving up pump driven machines for levers.

I also can't imagine either of us not having lever machines.

Start imagining life with 2 machines on the counter. 

[staylor]

No answers yet, mostly just questions rolling around in my head. ;-)

I've been thinking it over for some time now and I can't see either of us giving up pump driven machines for levers.

I also can't imagine either of us not having lever machines.

Start imagining life with 2 machines on the counter. 

Oh I've already started that imaginative imagery. Then I've also considered a BII and Lever sitting next to each other through the not quite as imaginative pair of sunglasses that my wife would be wearing. ;-)

[John F]

I also understand reading over at HB that the lever guys seem to feel the espresso is superior in ability to demonstrate the subtleties and many layers within the coffee, maybe add more clarity to the shot, etc and I'm down with that. Which of course brings me back to the discussion you and I have had many times which is 'What is espresso?' and I have a few opinions on that one, but none of them preclude shifting to a lever.

This is the vital issue.

I have a hunch I know how this is going to shake out and my intuition tells me that after a long hike down the lever trail it's going to be like water or air.

As in water or air, pick one.

My imagination has me enjoying and hating a few years with it and experiencing those days of "oh yeah, lever shows me all these layers and clarity, and I'm all over it" but then maybe a few years later.....water or air. Pick one.

All based on...well, you know.  

[staylor]

I also understand reading over at HB that the lever guys seem to feel the espresso is superior in ability to demonstrate the subtleties and many layers within the coffee, maybe add more clarity to the shot, etc and I'm down with that. Which of course brings me back to the discussion you and I have had many times which is 'What is espresso?' and I have a few opinions on that one, but none of them preclude shifting to a lever.

This is the vital issue.

I have a hunch I know how this is going to shake out and my intuition tells me that after a long hike down the lever trail it's going to be like water or air.

As in water or air, pick one.

My imagination has me enjoying and hating a few years with it and experiencing those days of "oh yeah, lever shows me all these layers and clarity, and I'm all over it" but then maybe a few years later.....water or air. Pick one.

All based on...well, you know.  

Indeed.

[John F]

Indeed.

This is why they made the BII with the ability to slide over a little bit. 

[staylor]

Indeed.

This is why they made the BII with the ability to slide over a little bit. 

Well it does have those super slider snow skate discs on the bottom to make moving it around on the counter all that much easier. Still, Doreen's eyeballs will bug out, hahaha.

[Pyment]

I have read the last 5 pages or so and I think not much has happened after the post on the Isomac Millenium II.  I also found a Tea for $600. Neither is within driving distance. I would have to hope the machine is available and that they are willing to ship.

[Pyment]

Indeed.

This is why they made the BII with the ability to slide over a little bit.  

And the ability to be sold to Py at a reasonable price.

[mp]

I have read the last 5 pages or so and I think not much has happened after the post on the Isomac Millenium II.  I also found a Tea for $600. Neither is within driving distance. I would have to hope the machine is available and that they are willing to ship.

The Tea ll is what I have Py.  It is not a double boiler nor does it have PID ... but it does pull some very nice espresso shot and foams like a choo choo train.