Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!

[Tex]

What was this thread about again?

Supposedly good or great espresso machines.  It seems that topic was never realized.  If you want arguing ... then I think you picked the right thread.

 

I still say we need an animated icon of someone arguing the balls off a brass billy goat?

:argue:

I thought that was you and your mother-in-law?

Are you implying that Milo hates his mother in law?

 

Are you implying that he doesn't?
 

I didn't imply anything.

 

Are you implying that you're innocent or just clueless?

 

What good is an icon to argue the balls off of a billy goat when we can't get the basic ones properly defined?

  - Angel ... it means I am angelic and don't imply anything.

 

So we need an icon of someone arguing the balls off an angel? Aren't all angels gender neutral?

Sorta like Canadians but better dressed? 

[mp]

For those who care about details, try this. An espresso machine is using a PID to maintain a group/brewing temp of 200°F, typically to within <1°F. Environmental/ambient temperatures may affect the external temps of the boiler & group, but as they change the PID instantly senses this and fires up the heating element to compensate. The boiler/group maintains a steady temperature to within <1°F, as determined by the PID's programming.

Likewise, if the ambient temp falls the PID senses the change and keeps the heating element off to compensate.

Environmental changes do not affect the shot, they simply wake up or put to sleep any device managing the group/brew temperatures. Unless the controlling device is defective it will maintain a very consistent brewing temperature. That's what a PID is designed to do and they've been doing it well for decades.

I bit confused on this PID working.  

Is it not dependent on the placement of the probe(s) or thermocouples of the PID the temperature setting that will be kept?  For example if the PID is supposed to monitor and maintain the temperature of the boiler then it will only do that and do it pretty well.  It would never read or otherwise monitor the temperature at the group head ... right?

 

Not really. If the thermocouple is placed on the boiler or group, or even inside the boiler, there will not be an exact display of the temps at the group or in the filter. But, there will be a direct correlation between the temp displayed and the brew temp. Example: I put t/c's on the brew tstat boss for Gaggias. Because of the proximity of the heating elements the display temp will usually be ~7°F above the actual brew temp. Knowing that, one tests for brew temps using a Scace device or the styrofoam cup test and makes adjustments to the PID up or down, making 1°F changes of the displayed temp to change the brew temp by a like amount.

Why not measure the brew temp directly? That would only be viable if one had water running through the group continuously. Since water passes through the group only when a shot is pulled, there would be nothing for the PID to adjust for when the machine is idle. That's when a PID works it's magic - during idle times.

So technically ... couldn't you rig it so that the PID is keeping track of the group temperature (after all ... there is the temperature for the money shot) so that when you pull the group is exactly the right temperature you need to get the most out of your bean?

 

[mp]

What was this thread about again?

Supposedly good or great espresso machines.  It seems that topic was never realized.  If you want arguing ... then I think you picked the right thread.

 

I still say we need an animated icon of someone arguing the balls off a brass billy goat?

:argue:

I thought that was you and your mother-in-law?

Are you implying that Milo hates his mother in law?

 

Are you implying that he doesn't?
 

I didn't imply anything.

 

Are you implying that you're innocent or just clueless?

 

What good is an icon to argue the balls off of a billy goat when we can't get the basic ones properly defined?

  - Angel ... it means I am angelic and don't imply anything.

 

So we need an icon of someone arguing the balls off an angel? Aren't all angels gender neutral?

Sorta like Canadians but better dressed? 

Angel's are spiritual entities who do not argue.

I don't believe there are any living in the great state of Texas.

Oh ... and they dress just like Canadians.

 

[MMW]

What was this thread about again?

Supposedly good or great espresso machines.  It seems that topic was never realized.  If you want arguing ... then I think you picked the right thread.

 

I still say we need an animated icon of someone arguing the balls off a brass billy goat?

:argue:

I thought that was you and your mother-in-law?

Are you implying that Milo hates his mother in law?

 

Are you implying that he doesn't?
 

I didn't imply anything.

 

Are you implying that you're innocent or just clueless?

 

What good is an icon to argue the balls off of a billy goat when we can't get the basic ones properly defined?

  - Angel ... it means I am angelic and don't imply anything.

 

What we *really* need is a plugin that stops quote nesting after about two deep or so 

[MMW]

Angel's are spiritual entities who do not argue.

I don't believe there are any living in the great state of Texas.

Must've never been by SMU

[milowebailey]

I thought that was you and your mother-in-law?

I like my mother-in-law

[Tex]

So technically ... couldn't you rig it so that the PID is keeping track of the group temperature (after all ... there is the temperature for the money shot) so that when you pull the group is exactly the right temperature you need to get the most out of your bean?

 

If all you wanted to do was measure the brew temps that would work. But if you want to manage the boiler temps so you can get a predictable temp for every shot brewed, no.

edited: Here's some non-technical definitions that might help you understand what a PID is doing.

[Tex]

I thought that was you and your mother-in-law?

I like my mother-in-law

But has she ever reconciled to you marrying HER daughter?

[Tex]

Angel's are spiritual entities who do not argue.

I don't believe there are any living in the great state of Texas.

Must've never been by SMU

Or seen the cheer squad at Texas Tech? every one of them!

[mp]

Angel's are spiritual entities who do not argue.

I don't believe there are any living in the great state of Texas.

Must've never been by SMU

Or seen the cheer squad at Texas Tech? every one of them!

No!  They most certainly do not dress like that.

 

[Tex]

Angel's are spiritual entities who do not argue.

I don't believe there are any living in the great state of Texas.

Must've never been by SMU

Or seen the cheer squad at Texas Tech? every one of them!

No!  They most certainly do not dress like that.

 

Are you sure? My super-saturated maleness suggests otherwise!!

[mp]

Angel's are spiritual entities who do not argue.

I don't believe there are any living in the great state of Texas.

Must've never been by SMU

Or seen the cheer squad at Texas Tech? every one of them!

No!  They most certainly do not dress like that.

 

Are you sure? My super-saturated maleness suggests otherwise!!

Ah ... that is your ego talking.

 

[Tex]

Angel's are spiritual entities who do not argue.

I don't believe there are any living in the great state of Texas.

Must've never been by SMU

Or seen the cheer squad at Texas Tech? every one of them!

No!  They most certainly do not dress like that.

 

Are you sure? My super-saturated maleness suggests otherwise!!

Ah ... that is your ego talking.

 

Nope, I just checked and my fly's closed!

[MMW]

Angel's are spiritual entities who do not argue.

I don't believe there are any living in the great state of Texas.

Must've never been by SMU

Or seen the cheer squad at Texas Tech? every one of them!

Yeah...that pretty much sets middle ground for the state 

[mp]

Angel's are spiritual entities who do not argue.

I don't believe there are any living in the great state of Texas.

Must've never been by SMU

Or seen the cheer squad at Texas Tech? every one of them!

No!  They most certainly do not dress like that.

 

Are you sure? My super-saturated maleness suggests otherwise!!

Ah ... that is your ego talking.

 

Nope, I just checked and my fly's closed!

Check again ... your ego is at your fence peeping over it to the next door neighbor.