Good or great espresso machines? Let the arguing begin!

[peter]

Tex is the all-time deflector-pro.

I believe every fact I posted is accurate and I believe that Chris Coffee would do anything and everything possible to satisfy a customer (based on my experience).

But that wouldn't fit into Tex's world-view.  Rather than help the guy get the machine working well by getting on the phone to Chris' and walking through a few steps with both the neighbor and a service tech, it's easier to keep pounding the pulpit and shout the 'I can do anything with a Gaggia' matra a little louder.

[Tex]

He could NOT have developed his barista skills any differently with your machine then he could have with the V2 alone.  I have to assume that you showed him how to dose, distribute and tamp to prepare a coffee bed for extraction.  It's the same on any machine.  You are making the absurd statements once again. I simply stated that Chris Coffee was as good a vendor as there is in my opinion after you stated that it was in excusable to send him a machine that you claim was not "tuned" properly.

And you have zero credibility with anyone who understands the mechanics of making espresso. Your patently foolish statement that environmental/ambient temperatures in any way impacts a machine performance is proof enough of your ignorance.

Now go away until you've developed the skills/knowledge to take part in this conversation.

Bad attempt to diflect the fact that you at totally wrong in this argument. Your stubborn exaggeration of the capabilities of home SB/DU units is what is foolish beyond belief.  I have no ax to grind in this argument but you have shown your ignorance and total lack of credibility.  It's actually funny how absurd your statement that your Gaggia is a better espresso machine then the La Spaz V2!      

Yeah, well now that you've shared your expert opinion with us maybe you'll crawl back into your hole and dream up some more absurd statements to mumble here?

Great and intelligent response that rebuffs my statement beyond any doubt.    You should be a professional debater. You could get a job at the UN debating international trade disputes (for the other side!)

And you should definitely keep your day job, because you'd never make it in the espresso field - any part of it!

[Tex]

Tex is the all-time deflector-pro.

I believe every fact I posted is accurate and I believe that Chris Coffee would do anything and everything possible to satisfy a customer (based on my experience).

But that wouldn't fit into Tex's world-view.  Rather than help the guy get the machine working well by getting on the phone to Chris' and walking through a few steps with both the neighbor and a service tech, it's easier to keep pounding the pulpit and shout the 'I can do anything with a Gaggia' matra a little louder.

A few steps? Now you're showing your ignorance peter - must be contagious, whatever GC7 has.

What possible help could a service technician offer over the phone, accepting that few people have a 53mm portafilter mounted manometer to adjust the group pressure or 53mm Scace device to adjust the group temp? In fact I know a handful of professional technicians and none of them happen to carry those particular tools around.

It was much easier to swap machines for awhile, so I could take his machine home and tune it.

[mp]

Ok ... I gotta chime in here ... even though Peter may be loving this ... this discussion has now earned Hottopic status ... it started as a discussion on superior espresso machines and now has gotten down to personal attacks.

Really ... don't we all love a good cup of coffee?  Don't we all take pride in how we make our coffee?  Don't we all have certain tricks that work for us and may not work for others?  Don't we all have our ideas of what the best espresso solution is?  

Lets remember that the machine is only one spoke in the wheel ... and certainly not the most important one.  Opinions are like back sides ... everyone has them.  We must respect everyone's opinion (and backside for that matter) or these discussions will resemble discussions I remember having in Kindergarten.

Can we be civil?

 

[Tex]

Ok ... I gotta chime in here ... even though Peter may be loving this ... this discussion has now earned Hottopic status ... it started as a discussion on superior espresso machines and now has gotten down to personal attacks.

Really ... don't we all love a good cup of coffee?  Don't we all take pride in how we make our coffee?  Don't we all have certain tricks that work for us and may not work for others?  Don't we all have our ideas of what the best espresso solution is?  

Lets remember that the machine is only one spoke in the wheel ... and certainly not the most important one.  Opinions are like back sides ... everyone has them.  We must respect everyone's opinion (and backside for that matter) or these discussions will resemble discussions I remember having in Kindergarten.

Can we be civil?

 

And don't we all have our little ol' Canadian peacemaker that we'd like to choke!

[mp]

Ok ... I gotta chime in here ... even though Peter may be loving this ... this discussion has now earned Hottopic status ... it started as a discussion on superior espresso machines and now has gotten down to personal attacks.

Really ... don't we all love a good cup of coffee?  Don't we all take pride in how we make our coffee?  Don't we all have certain tricks that work for us and may not work for others?  Don't we all have our ideas of what the best espresso solution is?  

Lets remember that the machine is only one spoke in the wheel ... and certainly not the most important one.  Opinions are like back sides ... everyone has them.  We must respect everyone's opinion (and backside for that matter) or these discussions will resemble discussions I remember having in Kindergarten.

Can we be civil?

 

And don't we all have our little ol' Canadian peacemaker that we'd like to choke!

Sure ... shoot the messenger when the message arrives.

 

[GC7]

Three discussions of possible environmentaal effects on brew temperature of different class machines.

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/wondering-how-much-to-offset-vibiemme-domobar-super-pid-t14364.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p171819

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/saturated-group-vs-e61-group-on-temperature-repeatability-t12594.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p146462

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/cimbali-junior-d-1-temperature-probe-t13575.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p164467

Only a small sampling but I'm sure it does not apply to Gaggias

[Tex]

Three discussions of possible environmentaal effects on brew temperature of different class machines.

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/wondering-how-much-to-offset-vibiemme-domobar-super-pid-t14364.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p171819

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/saturated-group-vs-e61-group-on-temperature-repeatability-t12594.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p146462

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/cimbali-junior-d-1-temperature-probe-t13575.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p164467

Only a small sampling but I'm sure it does not apply to Gaggias

An idiot citing idiots parlaying about their idiotic observances. I've done data logging of PID'd machines (HX, SB/DU and lever operated) group temps during the winter months when the ambient temp is 71°F and during the summer months when the room temp is 77°F. There's never been the slightest deviation in performance that can be attributed to ambient temp changes - zero.

Get me someone with knowledge who makes that statement and I'll consider it.

[mp]

That makes perfect sense.  

When the room temperature is cooler than 20 degrees Celsius my F.I.R. sauna does not reach the temperature it reaches as when it is at 22 degrees Celsius.

I see no reason why that would not be the case with espresso machines or any other machines.

 

[GC7]

Three discussions of possible environmentaal effects on brew temperature of different class machines.

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/wondering-how-much-to-offset-vibiemme-domobar-super-pid-t14364.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p171819

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/saturated-group-vs-e61-group-on-temperature-repeatability-t12594.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p146462

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/cimbali-junior-d-1-temperature-probe-t13575.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p164467

Only a small sampling but I'm sure it does not apply to Gaggias

An idiot citing idiots parlaying about their idiotic observances. I've done data logging of PID'd machines (HX, SB/DU and lever operated) group temps during the winter months when the ambient temp is 71°F and during the summer months when the room temp is 77°F. There's never been the slightest deviation in performance that can be attributed to ambient temp changes - zero.

Get me someone with knowledge who makes that statement and I'll consider it.

You mean you and only you? 

[Tex]

That makes perfect sense.  

When the room temperature is cooler than 20 degrees Celsius my F.I.R. sauna does not reach the temperature it reaches as when it is at 22 degrees Celsius.

I see no reason why that would not be the case with espresso machines or any other machines.

 

Let's see - does your sauna have a 1500 watt heater to heat less than 4 ozs of water? Is your sauna's temperature controlled by a PID programmed to maintain a preset temp to with 1°F? Does your sauna have a massive brass thermal mass to aid in that temperature control?

1st rule of logic which GC7 doesn't get; don't apply what you think you know about one thing, to something about which you're totally ignorant!

[Tex]

Three discussions of possible environmentaal effects on brew temperature of different class machines.

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/wondering-how-much-to-offset-vibiemme-domobar-super-pid-t14364.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p171819

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/saturated-group-vs-e61-group-on-temperature-repeatability-t12594.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p146462

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/cimbali-junior-d-1-temperature-probe-t13575.html?hilit=room%20temperature#p164467

Only a small sampling but I'm sure it does not apply to Gaggias

An idiot citing idiots parlaying about their idiotic observances. I've done data logging of PID'd machines (HX, SB/DU and lever operated) group temps during the winter months when the ambient temp is 71°F and during the summer months when the room temp is 77°F. There's never been the slightest deviation in performance that can be attributed to ambient temp changes - zero.

Get me someone with knowledge who makes that statement and I'll consider it.

You mean you and only you? 

No, Scace or Schulman will do for a start.

[GC7]

I have a PID controlled boiler (+/- 1* F) AND a grouphead digital thermometer.  Ambient room temperature has as much as a 3-4* effect on steady state equlibrium grouphead temperature that MUST be accounted for to get desired brew temperatures.  FACT

[mp]

That makes perfect sense.  

When the room temperature is cooler than 20 degrees Celsius my F.I.R. sauna does not reach the temperature it reaches as when it is at 22 degrees Celsius.

I see no reason why that would not be the case with espresso machines or any other machines.

 

Let's see - does your sauna have a 1500 watt heater to heat less than 4 ozs of water? Is your sauna's temperature controlled by a PID programmed to maintain a preset temp to with 1°F? Does your sauna have a massive brass thermal mass to aid in that temperature control?

1st rule of logic which GC7 doesn't get; don't apply what you think you know about one thing, to something about which you're totally ignorant!

Yes ... the sauna is 1500 watts.

It is not heating up 4 ounces of water ... it is heating up the space inside it.  

Not having a clear picture or full working knowledge of how a PID works I cannot answer that.  I can tell you it is a digital setting.  It displays the temperature in Celsius or Fahrenheit and displays the temperature as it climbs to the temperature setting you have put it at.

A massive brass thermal mass ... I must admit I never opened up the heater or its parts but would venture to guess that it does not.

 

[staylor]

What was this thread about again?