Reality and practically of small pro roasters

[John F]

Question for all of you with small pro roasters.

I know several people here roast for churches, farmers markets, online shops, and other situations that are just smaller than a brick and mortar cafe.

A few years ago I read a story by Paradise Roasters that basically said the vast majority of orders they get are 1lb so larger roasters don't make sense if you plan to roast fresh/to order.

This is the opposite problem brewers have because undersized systems are the number one problem for start up breweries.

So I'm curious what you that are actually doing and have found to be true for what size/model roasters actually make the most practical realistic roasters for the non B&M cafe.

In a cafe it makes sense to roast a batch to last a week if possible or big commercial outfits like Intelly or Stump obviously need large capacity.

Is there a median consensus on small pro roasters?

[peter]

I guess it would depend on how many varieties you want to offer, and how often you want to roast.

I sell about 50# per month, and average once a week for roasting.  A big part of what makes my gig work is that 2/3 of my customers like everything they've had over the years so they ask for "roaster's choice", leaving it up to me.  I keep a spreadsheet so I don't give them too many repeats too often.  This allows me to roast the requests of those who are specific in their ordering, and then hold the overage of the rest of the people who like a surprise.

I wasn't real clear on what you were asking, so maybe that's not helping you.

[shep]

Interesting question. Roaster size is something I wrestle with from time to time. I was actually asked this same question last week. I have owned a 2 kilo and a 10 kilo and I currently roast on a 5 kilo. I have always done wholesale and web sales, never a retail coffee shop. When I ran my previous shop, the first thing I did was to work on getting one healthy account that would use all my coffees and take them weekly. The reason for this was so that I could always roast full batches, no matter the size of my machine (within reason) and not have to worry about wasting coffee. Those 1lb web orders or even local ones can kill you if you don't have a way to sell the "extra."

I got lucky and picked up a grocer who sold a lot of coffee. Before we were done I had 21, 10-15lb bins in two of his stores...42 bins total (He just offered me 44 bins again...but, alas, he is too far away!). He sold a couple hundred pounds a week, so I was constantly roasting and supplying him. I eventually worked up to pushing about 500 lbs a week on a 10 kilo machine. The small orders were never a problem because I was always roasting and selling. In this scenario, the larger the machine the better. Ideal in my mind is a 12 kilo. And I never roasted smaller than capacity batches. Remember, I've been working in manufacturing since 1978; it's very hard for me to not think in terms of economies of scale.

Now that I sold that business and started up again in a very limiting scenario, I face exactly what you are talking about. I get a lot of those 1lb orders. I probably only sell 100-150lbs a month and I toll roast another 100-300 a month. I do this on a 5 kilo US Roaster. 10lbs is max. I can do 5lbs on it with no problem. I can probably do less, but I haven't tried. Seems like a big waste of time in my mind...hard for me to get past the scale mentality. The 5 kilo seems like a good size for what I do now. I can roast reasonably small batches.

However, since I don't want to stay this size and in this situation, I plan on a 12 kilo. I prefer to try to build my business to accommodate a machine that can actually make me money on the wholesale side, as opposed to buying a machine that will let me do 1-5 pounds orders. I'm no expert, but I've done this long enough now to know that on the wholesale side, I can't make any money with those small numbers. I'm just laundering money. If its not making money, I'd just as soon be riding my motorcycle. I can do it on the 5 kilo, but I have also spent a lot of 12 hour days at that machine...not really that fun. 

So, if you are retailing, selling at a market, web only, etc, maybe a 3-5 kilo is fine...I'd go 5. But if you plan to wholesale, I say 12 kilo and up.

Shep

[John F]

What about 1lb orders?

You all sound like you are roasting full loads then selling whatever had been roasted. This works fine in a case like Peter has or in wholesale/bulk..

[jspain]

What about 1lb orders?

You all sound like you are roasting full loads then selling whatever had been roasted. This works fine in a case like Peter has or in wholesale/bulk..

I roast 2,5#s on my 1.5K drum. That gives me 2#s of roasted coffee. I roast at least 3 batches when I roast thus I have 23s each of three different origins. That handles 3 customer to six customers and I have a few friends that get 2#s at a time. I don't believe I'll ever out live this roaster for size and versatility..... Just getting ready to start roasting for the downtown Christmas visitors that come in to see the lights at the courthouse and the old time exhibits. I have a friend selling baked goods and he'll sell my coffee brewed and in 12oz/1# bags. First time doing this. Hope to have at least 2 origin available at all times with samples of each.

[John F]

And I'm guessing 1lb roasts are really 1.25s.

[shep]

One thing I do now, using the 5 kilo, is if I have a random small order of say 1lb, I will roast 5, meaning I come out with just over 4. I provide the pound ordered and use the rest to give out as samples to try to get business. Obviously, you can do that all the time, but it is something I do on occasion. I also barter with coffee. There is a shop in town that prints shirts, jackets and banners. I trade coffee for work. I took him some "leftovers" last week and he printed up a hoodie for me in return.

Shep

[peter]

What about 1lb orders?

You all sound like you are roasting full loads then selling whatever had been roasted. This works fine in a case like Peter has or in wholesale/bulk..

Inquiring minds want to know!  What scheme is John F devising in his old age?   


The theme I see in most of the answers above is the monthly sales vs. the time spent roasting vs. possible range of batch sizes.

For my 50# per month sales my capacity is way larger than I need, but a 2K commercial drum does such a nice job that it makes sense to me.  It translates into 4-5 hours of roasting, so I could turn the monthly sales into weekly sales without breaking a sweat if I was more ambitious. 

I'd say the easily repeatable batch size for me would be 1lb. up to 4lbs. net.  For the first 2+ years of using this roaster I never varied on batch size, just to learn the roaster and eliminate that variable.  But now, I find it fairly easy to go smaller, even though as Jamie says, I don't want to.

[John F]

What is it you are roasting that 50# on Peter?

[peter]

What is it you are roasting that 50# on Peter?

Ambex YM-2K, running on propane.  Bought it from a member here, Ben Barzookis, who used to distribute greens, but has since ridden off into the sunset...  family/work/life got to be a priority, so I bought the roaster.

I love roasting on a commercial machine, even though lots of big roasters chuckle at the cuteness of a 2K.  The results of the SC/TO are close, but a commercial roaster just makes it a real delight to roast with.

[John F]

And I'm guessing 1lb roasts are really 1.25s.

I find 19 oz. will "usually" end up 16 oz unless I do a French roast, then I need 21-22 oz to equal a pound

Does anybody know if the US Roaster 1# will accept a 20oz starting  batch size?

[staylor]

I'm on the SF-1 and do approx 3lbs of brown per hour. I like the SF-1 as I can do small batches and have multiple coffees available for my personal consumption throughout the week.

I'm only doing 30-40lbs a month (10-14hrs a month). I don't feel like my roaster is undersized as I use the roasting time in my garage to also work on my bikes or doing work on my laptop. It's the perfect roaster size for me. If the roasting time was starting to hit the 20hrs per month level I would have to make a decision on larger roaster or not. I don't think I'm going to have to face that decision as I do my best to contain sales to just friends, acquaintances and standing orders. I don't go out of my way to get/chase more sales as there isn't enough money in it to make it worth my time beyond the 10-14hr mark.

Roasting is just a hobby, and I want to keep it that way.

If I was looking to move out of the hobbyist range I would look for a larger roaster...

[Joe]

This sounds like a job for sonofresco....

I know some people selling a propane model and there is one that needs some minor items for around $500 here in San Diego.

1lb finished batches..mighty nice.

[John F]

How does a sono roast?

Does it turn out bright batches like a giant poppery?

Can you profile much with it?

Can it roast one lb finished weight to the first few snaps of second crack in under 13min?

The price sounds ridiculously too good to be true. The one lb US is about $6k the SF much more.

[peter]

Sonofrescos suck. 

(Joe's been in too good a mood the last couple days, so I had to sneak that in there)


Are you toying with the idea of making some money selling roasted coffee, John?