Author Topic: New Used Compak K-10  (Read 8873 times)

Offline expy98

  • Standard User
  • ****
  • Posts: 923
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2014, 11:24:20 AM »
assuming you switch up coffee after each jar and have lots of different single origins,
also a good place to record the dose and grind setting on the same jar so that next time
you use that same bean, you have a pretty good starting point.

I'm just surprised that you still have the K10 and haven't upgraded to the EK43 yet.

SJM

  • Guest
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2014, 11:57:29 AM »
assuming you switch up coffee after each jar and have lots of different single origins,
also a good place to record the dose and grind setting on the same jar so that next time
you use that same bean, you have a pretty good starting point.

I'm just surprised that you still have the K10 and haven't upgraded to the EK43 yet.


Come on, Sam, I had the MD-50 for 6 years  ;)

And, no, I don't switch beans very often. 
Mostly I pull Redbird.
Occasionally Belle Espresso.

I've been spending my time this week trying to relate to what I read in Jim Schulman's article on extraction, so I've been weighing shots before and after my pulls, drying pucks to establish % of extraction, and....like that.  It's very much worth the effort to understand his thesis on extraction....

http://www.coffeecuppers.com/Espresso.htm

Susan



Offline peter

  • The Warden - Now Retired
  • Retired Old Goats
  • **
  • Posts: 14524
  • Monkey Club Cupper
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2014, 12:03:21 PM »
I always thought % of extraction was a ratio of ground coffee weight to weight of espresso.  As in, 16g of ground beans producing 32g of espresso equals 50% extraction percentage.

Too lazy to go and read the HB thread right now.  Weighing spent pucks sounds goofy.
Quote of the Day; \"...yet you refuse to come to Me that you

SJM

  • Guest
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2014, 12:12:14 PM »
I always thought % of extraction was a ratio of ground coffee weight to weight of espresso.  As in, 16g of ground beans producing 32g of espresso equals 50% extraction percentage.

Too lazy to go and read the HB thread right now.  Weighing spent pucks sounds goofy.

Wrong, but....
if you don't care you just don't, and....Goofy is one of the nicer things I've been called....

Susan





ecc

  • Guest
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2014, 12:20:11 PM »
Ah, that trusty blue tape that someone here taught me to use to mark my coffee jars.....good idea.

Don't tell Todd you said that about the hacksaw;  he'll worry about me all day....:-))))

Susan
who loves it that she has friends who worry about her....


I'll bet Larry and I have set more than our fair share of stuff on fire.  Just not this week! :)




I always thought % of extraction was a ratio of ground coffee weight to weight of espresso.  As in, 16g of ground beans producing 32g of espresso equals 50% extraction percentage.

Too lazy to go and read the HB thread right now.  Weighing spent pucks sounds goofy.

That's brewing ratio.  Extraction ratio is how much of the (hopefully dissolved) coffee ends up in the cup.

SJM

  • Guest
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2014, 12:25:16 PM »
I always thought % of extraction was a ratio of ground coffee weight to weight of espresso.  As in, 16g of ground beans producing 32g of espresso equals 50% extraction percentage.

Too lazy to go and read the HB thread right now.  Weighing spent pucks sounds goofy.

That's brewing ratio.  Extraction ratio is how much of the (hopefully dissolved) coffee ends up in the cup.

Todd got it in one.....
and suspended solids are probably not to be dismissed altogether....

Susan

Offline peter

  • The Warden - Now Retired
  • Retired Old Goats
  • **
  • Posts: 14524
  • Monkey Club Cupper
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2014, 01:24:07 PM »
I always thought % of extraction was a ratio of ground coffee weight to weight of espresso.  As in, 16g of ground beans producing 32g of espresso equals 50% extraction percentage.

Too lazy to go and read the HB thread right now.  Weighing spent pucks sounds goofy.

Wrong, but....
if you don't care you just don't, and....Goofy is one of the nicer things I've been called....

Susan

No, I can't be wrong!   ;)

So you weigh the coffee before pulling the shot, and then you weigh the spent puck?  Is the puck dried out first?  And this tells you what sort of meaningful information?  I want to care, but I don't understand.
Quote of the Day; \"...yet you refuse to come to Me that you

SJM

  • Guest
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2014, 01:53:03 PM »
Yes.
I weigh the dose.
Pull the shot.
Weigh the puck.
Dry the puck in the oven.
Weigh the grounds.
Divide the weight lost by the weight of the original dose
And that gives me the % extraction.

My current extraction % seems to be about 18%,

but....I am a student and not a teacher. 
Read Jim's article if you are interested in why it might matter.

I have improved the taste in the cup over the past day or two just playing around with the concept....or have at least deluded myself into thinking so....:-)))



Offline expy98

  • Standard User
  • ****
  • Posts: 923
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2014, 02:14:25 PM »

Come on, Sam, I had the MD-50 for 6 years  ;)

Susan

and how long were you married again?  we all make mistakes... :-)

SJM

  • Guest
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2014, 02:35:09 PM »
Oh Sam.....low blow, but not an unreasonable question, and the answer is......not very long.

As to Peter, I was just outside thinking about your lack of interest and realized that my interest wouldn't exist if I were completely satisfied with what I'm pulling out of my various espresso machines.  I have been searching for my own personal and reproduceable perfect shots now for....6-7 years?  I'm a slow learner....:-)))))))))

Susan

Offline grinderz

  • Standard User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3442
  • No unjacked threads!
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2014, 03:10:51 PM »
6 or 7 years means you're only in the foothills on the path up the mountain to espresso nirvana...   ;)
var elvisLives = Math.PI > 4 ? "Yep" : "Nope";

SJM

  • Guest
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2014, 03:15:25 PM »
6 or 7 years means you're only in the foothills on the path up the mountain to espresso nirvana...   ;)

THANK YOU !!!!
I knew someone would get it that I'm still a rank beginner....:-))))

Susan

Offline peter

  • The Warden - Now Retired
  • Retired Old Goats
  • **
  • Posts: 14524
  • Monkey Club Cupper
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2014, 03:35:40 PM »

As to Peter, I was just outside thinking about your lack of interest and realized that my interest wouldn't exist if I were completely satisfied with what I'm pulling out of my various espresso machines.  I have been searching for my own personal and reproduceable perfect shots now for....6-7 years?  I'm a slow learner....:-)))))))))

Susan

Yeah, I get that.  Lack of satisfaction is a strong motivator.  I'm still somewhat interested, just to get some understanding of the process.

But let me ask this; if you find that 18% is where you want to be in extraction percentage, and you're above or below, what is it that you change in the process to hone in on the 18%?  Amount of coffee used?  Shot time?  I may get hooked into this after all.
Quote of the Day; \"...yet you refuse to come to Me that you

SJM

  • Guest
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2014, 04:10:03 PM »
I'm keeping the shot weight as my constant right now:  30 grams.
I started with a dose of 17.5%;  pulled the shot until 30 grams.
Extractions have seemed to be 17.5 - 18%   (very very very small sample, but this is just for me and not 'science')

Anyway, this morning to see if I could up the extraction a tiny bit, I tightened the grind and lowered the dose to 17 grams. 

I liked the improvement in the taste.
I haven't dried the puck yet to see if the numbers changed.


ecc

  • Guest
Re: New Used Compak K-10
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2014, 04:21:11 PM »

As to Peter, I was just outside thinking about your lack of interest and realized that my interest wouldn't exist if I were completely satisfied with what I'm pulling out of my various espresso machines.  I have been searching for my own personal and reproduceable perfect shots now for....6-7 years?  I'm a slow learner....:-)))))))))

Susan

Yeah, I get that.  Lack of satisfaction is a strong motivator.  I'm still somewhat interested, just to get some understanding of the process.

But let me ask this; if you find that 18% is where you want to be in extraction percentage, and you're above or below, what is it that you change in the process to hone in on the 18%?  Amount of coffee used?  Shot time?  I may get hooked into this after all.

Adjust the grind!  I can't help but approve of any experiment that smells as bad as the puck bake, but it is really hard to pull it off with any precision.  1% of a puck is less than .2g, which means you would have to filter the shot and add that back into your total, as well as scrounge for all the loose bits on your grouphead.



I think the easiest way to play with it is to filter a shot through paper, and then use about $800 of refractometer and software.  Then you jack around with every parameter you can think of.   You can make it go down pretty easily.  Up is harder.


Or, you could brute force it, and hold the coffee to water ratio constant and adjust the grind.

For example 18g in, 35g in the cup.   Maybe you like 60g out,  maybe 30g that's all fine too as long as it stays the same. Start with your grinder way coarser than you need, and stop the shot when you hit 35g out, regardless of what the flow looks like.  Repeat with tighter grinds, essentially until you choke it.

If you have no big limitations in temp, grinder distribution, distribution, etc. most people will find that the best taste, and good looking flow timing occurs in the 18-22% extraction range.  You would need to do this after any changes that would alter the extraction rate.  (ex. PID setting, water tests, pressure settings,roast level,coffee,etc.)

The big conicals will show good flow timing across a much wider range than lesser (now being sold) equipment.  In some ways that is cool, allows you to flow nice and soft for a wider range of adjustments.  In some ways that is bad, making it harder to diagnose shot quality by just looking at the flow.   (see how I pulled this back on topic?)